Eye to the ground...
It is obviously not the paramount system,
But thanks for stating the obvious, yet again, anyway cryMRU.
I suppose you're next going to be telling me how Kim Jong Il ain't the "Glorious Leader" he makes himself out to be...
but such factors as lack of arable land (especially compared to the South)
Is there a magic fucking barrier at the DMZ that separates all fertile land? It must be just like that magic barrier between Alberta and Saskatchewan that separates natural resource production...
and bad harvests have taken their toll.
That's not a factor genius, it's an end result...
This is not directed at you specifically, but I find it strange when people seem to blame every single wrongdoing in the area on the government.
When you have a cultist government that attempts to exert total control over every aspect of it's citizen's lives, who the fuck SHOULD get the blame for "every single wrongdoing"?
Some things cannot be controlled.
Yeah, like complete ignorance and denial...
But thanks for stating the obvious, yet again, anyway cryMRU.
I suppose you're next going to be telling me how Kim Jong Il ain't the "Glorious Leader" he makes himself out to be...
but such factors as lack of arable land (especially compared to the South)
Is there a magic fucking barrier at the DMZ that separates all fertile land? It must be just like that magic barrier between Alberta and Saskatchewan that separates natural resource production...
and bad harvests have taken their toll.
That's not a factor genius, it's an end result...
This is not directed at you specifically, but I find it strange when people seem to blame every single wrongdoing in the area on the government.
When you have a cultist government that attempts to exert total control over every aspect of it's citizen's lives, who the fuck SHOULD get the blame for "every single wrongdoing"?
Some things cannot be controlled.
Yeah, like complete ignorance and denial...
posted by KnightofGoodMrIronMan at 6:47 PM
14 Comments:
"But thanks for stating the obvious, yet again, anyway cryMRU.
I suppose you're next going to be telling me how Kim Jong Il ain't the "Glorious Leader" he makes himself out to be..."
I have to state the obvious because otherwise you accuse me of being a communist, which I have never understood.
"Is there a magic fucking barrier at the DMZ that separates all fertile land? It must be just like that magic barrier between Alberta and Saskatchewan that separates natural resource production..."
Sigh. No, it's on average of course.
"That's not a factor genius, it's an end result..."
A bad harvest? Yes, it is. But many things including the weather affect harvests. DO you get pissed off at Ethiopia for having bad harvests?
"When you have a cultist government that attempts to exert total control over every aspect of it's citizen's lives, who the fuck SHOULD get the blame for "every single wrongdoing"?"
Because there are some aspects which the government cannot control! Although I'm sure that Kim would want to control the weather, he cannot do that.
"Yeah, like complete ignorance and denial..."
Oh dear.
cymru:
Lack of arable land??????
The bad harvests in North Korea have the same overall cause as bad harvests in Zimbabwe: uber-collectivist ignorance and meddling. But this might make things a little clearer (Arable land per capita)
Korea, North 1997-1999 0.08
Korea, South 1997-1999 0.04
Japan 1997-1999 0.04
Netherlands 1997-1999 0.06
Israel 1997-1999 0.06
Malaysia 1997-1999 0.08
In units, North Korea has 2.6 million hectares of arable land, as opposed to South Korea's 1.6 million.
19% of South Korea's land is arable as opposed to 14% in North Korea, but North Korea has a larger land area: 120,000 sq/km as compared to South Korea's 98,000--and South Korea has a little more than twice the population of North Korea.
In other words, North Korea has more arable land per capita than South Korea (or Japan, Netherlands, Israel or Malaysia). But those folks ain't starving. North Korean climate counts for some additional problems as compared to, say, South Korea, but not enough for the food supply disparity in total.
the 0.08 etc is hectares of arable land per capita...
But isn't that just land use? Look at the Netherlands: of course they don't need to use arable land. They're a first world country! Would they need to be self-sufficent on food production? North Korea uses more because it needs more: the south uses less because it needs less. Consider also the urban population of both countries in comparison.
If you look at countless humanitarian reports, the lack of arable land in the north is cited as a reason for the lack of food.
Of course that's what they blame, cymru. It's considered damned impolite in many circles to look at the real reason South Korea isn't third world but North Korea is. That would require looking at the the type of government they each have and ***gasp*** making a judgement on which one is *better*.
But the figures I gave are real. If lack of arable land was the real reason, then other countries with similar low amounts of arable land--especially one right freakin' next door--would logically have the same problem. But they don't, so the only honestalternative is to look for other variables.
Jeeeziz, cymru: take the blinders off and get real, wouldja?
"It's considered damned impolite in many circles to look at the real reason South Korea isn't third world but North Korea is"
Come on. You think humanitarian groups skirt around the fact that it's a shit government? Everyone knows it. Just because they are a humanitarian group doesn't mean they'll avoid the issue.
" If lack of arable land was the real reason, then other countries with similar low amounts of arable land--especially one right freakin' next door--would logically have the same problem. But they don't, so the only honestalternative is to look for other variables."
I have answered this above. Plus 80% of north Koreanland is mountainous or on uplands. This cannot be said for the south.
"Jeeeziz, cymru: take the blinders off and get real, wouldja? "
If a 'blinder' is attempting to be objective in this, then no, I won't. As I have always maintained, not everything wrong is North Korea is the government's fault.
And before anyone accuses me of supporting them: I know it's a shit government. I have to state this because time and time again I have been accused of either being "a commie" or a supporter of Kim. It's called being objective, something which people cannot seem to do when talking about the DPRK.
cymru: I'm not accusing you of being a communist or a sympathiser. I'm simply saying that the arable land isn't near all in the mountains (the standards for what is considered arable land is the same no matter what country--and that's leaving aside technologies like terracing or polder).
I agree with you that not everything is te government's fault. Even the country with the best government, for example, still has a death rate overall of 100%.
But, that said, the inability to provide for its own citizens is chronic in that country. So, if arable land doesn't answer the question, and you don't think government style accounts for most the discrepancy, what other variables do you think are in play?
" So, if arable land doesn't answer the question, and you don't think government style accounts for most the discrepancy, what other variables do you think are in play? "
Well, personally I believe that arable land IS a factor due to the reasons I've stated above. In addition, the weather, the one thing that the Kims cannot control (but probably wish they could), also has a bad affect on harvests.
To me, those are two factors amongst others to why north Korea has crap harvests.
Oh, and I'm glad you don't blindly consider me a communist: it's just that ironman cannot seem to understand that the world isn't just black and white and that I'm not an 'evil commie'!
cymru: Do you know anything about Albania's Enver Hoxha? And, if so, do you not see any parallels?
I'm not familiar with Hoxha. Having done a university course on Eastern Europe I'm pretty familiar with that area (it's quite easy to draw parallels between DPRK and Romania), but Yugoslavia and Albania aren't included.
Check the history; I think then you'll understand what I'm getting at. Romania was a cakewalk compared to Albania. DPRK and Albania is a closer match.
Ok. Always wanted to look it up: but at the moment I have a piece to write on Ceausescu so I haven't got time!
Knight, you have no reply, yet again.
Why do you do this site if you cannot defend your points at all?
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